Do you have a logo your market loves?
It’s online branding 101. Your brand doesn’t need to be complex or cost thousands of dollars to develop.
But it does need to be effective.
After all, you’ll sell more when you have a brand identity that connects with your market.
Think Nike’s “Swoosh.” Why are consumers willing to pay a 25-50% higher price for clothes with that logo on it, versus other clothes with a similar quality without that logo?
What makes that happen?
You can achieve a similar impact too.
Some pointers for doing that:
1. Keep it Simple
Going back to Nike’s logo, it’s just a swoosh, isn’t it? No need to make yours complex.
Your target market should be able to look at your logo for just a couple seconds and get value from it.
Online, that’s all they’re going to do, after all.
They’re not going to stare at your logo for 30 seconds, mesmerized and trying to figure out what your logoÂ stands for.
2. Be Unique
One graphic designer, MattÂ Mickiewicz, co-founder of Sitepoint.com, says to stay away from globes and arrows because they get used a lot.
To make sure you’re unique, research your competitors and their logos. Do anything but what they do.
And when you think of recognizable logos, think of some of the leading brands in the United States:
3. Make Sure Your LogoÂ Fits Your Customer’s Values
This is a tough one. Knowing your market and ideal customer takes years to understand.
But ideally you have an in-depth understanding of your market before you create your logo.
Let’s say you sell technical products to people in careers like engineering and software development. You’ll want to stay off the fun and lighthearted side with your approach.
This is where the help of an experienced graphic designer comes in super handy.
4. Use Color to Trigger Your Market’s Most Powerful Buying Emotions
Color psychology comes into play big-time with your logo. Nike uses a black swoosh in most cases. But it also uses other colors, depending on the clothing, and in general they tend to be dark.
Darker colors tend to evoke a sense of coolness, confidence, and a bit of mystery. To athletes and people who take exercise seriously, being cool, calm, and confident is very important.
5. Watch Your Font Closely
Your font, again, must be tied to your target market’s most powerful emotion. If you market survival kits to men interested in the outdoors, you need a tough, aggressive, and bold font.
If you sell luxury clothing items toÂ middle-agedÂ women, you need a graceful, refined, and delicate font.
Fonts again are complicated, and you may need a graphic designer’s help to find the right one for your logo.
Until You Have an Intimate Understanding of Your Customer…
Don’t invest lots of money into your logo. Your logo doesn’t make your business…your customer does.
So for now, use an affordable logo design website like WithOomph.com to make your own logo.
It’ll get you by until you’re ready to take the next step in business.
Do you know how to market your e-commerce business?
One of the biggest struggles small business have, and most of the time they don’t know they have it, is marketing.
Many, maybe most, small online businesses of any kind, including e-commerce stores, think “marketing” means “ranking high for key words.”
That’s partially true. SEO gives you exposure, which is certainly one part of marketing. But aside from “getting your name out there,” there’s much more to marketing.
And when you master those other aspects, it’s easy to get more sales. Let’s take a look at some of those in very simple terms:
1. Positioning – Great Example: Apple Versus Windows PCs
“Positioning” simply refers to how your market thinks of you versus the competition. Though less true today because the quality of PCs is increasing, Apple has long been thought of as a premium brand when compared to PCs.
PCs have long focused on being the cheaper alternative.
Today, Apple still holds that high-end reputation. But they’ve expanded it to include smartphones, tablet PCs, and smartwatches.
What you can learn: How can you differentiate your products from your competitors so it’s easier to sell more?
2. Focusing on the Benefits to Your Consumers, Not What Products You Offer
If you go to many small e-commerce sites and watch the language they use to describe their products, you’ll notice they talk about what they sell, and facts about the products. For example, they’ll discuss how their products are “fast, easy-to-use, colorful, and compact.”
It’s important for your market to know what you sell and the features of those products. But really, they want to know what your product’s going to do for them.
So that means you need to discuss the benefits of your products. Let’s discuss a few potential benefits of a pair of designer eyeglasses, for example:
1) Sturdy build means your eyeglasses don’t break or scratch – even when they fall long distances
2) Sleek design makesÂ you look intelligent and professional at your office
3) Durable and compact carrying case lets you keep your glasses in any pocket – without having to worry about damage
What you can learn: To focus more on what you should say, always answer the question,”What’s in it for me?” with your marketing.
3. Having a Consistent, Recognizable Brand that Evokes Emotions from Your Customers
This one’s more of a long-term objective. If your business is growing beyond just you and a couple employees or subs that help, it’s time to consider starting to work on your branding.
To get a sense of branding, ask yourself these questions:
1) How do I feel when I think of the iPhone?
2) How do I feel when I think of Android phones?
Write down a few thoughts and feelings for each. Or, simply substitute brands you know better. Make sure you have at least one competitor for comparison purposes.
As an example, for me, iPhone represents a sleek, premium, and somewhat expensive product. Android, which I own, focuses more on simplicity, practicality, and usability.
Right or not, that’s the way those brands make me feel. And currently, I prefer simplicity and usability to a premium brand.
What you can learn: Think of the biggest problems your products solve for your customers. What feelings would be most important for them to experience?
Should your customers feel luxurious, like they have something most people can’t afford?
Do they need to feel safe and secure, like your product will never fail, because competing products often do?
Or do they need a sense of ease, like your product solves a problem that sucks major time out of their lives?
Everything about your brand needs to speak to the feelings they want to experience.
Well, that’s marketing 101. Focus on those three aspects as you go forward, and watch your sales take off!
One of the coolest things about online business is there’s no one right way to do it. For some, that may pose a problem.
But it’s really a benefit. Because that means the methods for making a profitable e-commerce site are nearly limitless. It’s up to you to discover them because you know the problems your customers have better than anyone else.
And since I don’t know the problems they have, I can be most helpful to you by giving you some examples of what other sites do so you can easily come up with more profitable ideas for yours:
1. Madame Choup – Cooking Apparel
In the age of political correctness, you wouldn’t think cooking aprons would be big sellers. But Madame Choupe makes them work anyway.
As you can see from their selection, they take traditional cooking aprons, which you wouldn’t think would be very exciting, and turn them into superÂ exciting designer cooking apparel.
What to learn: Can you take a new approach to a long-standing product, and reinvigorate demand for it in the 21st century? There’s higher profit margins in products you make yourself.
2. Eataly – Merging the Online and Offline
Eataly does so much amazing and innovative stuff I could dedicate a series of blog posts to it. For starters, they focus on a specific niche of food: Italian. You don’t see many “grocery stores” that do that.
But what they really pull off well is they have brick-and-mortar stores that rakeÂ in huge sales. They’re located in major cities like New York, Chicago, Moscow, and Munich, among many others across the world.
In simplest terms, Eataly is an “Italian grocery store.” But you don’t get any sense of that when you visit their site. You have a feel they only provide foods and drinks of much higher quality than what you’d get at your local grocer.
Plus, their brick-and-mortar stores are designed to feel more like the marketplaces of Sicily from centuries ago, rather than your bland grocery store of today.
What you can learn: How can you create a unique online and offline experience that appeals to your customers? It works – Eataly has hundreds of millions in revenues from their stores, including $50 million from their Chicago location alone.
3. Home Depot, Best Buy, and Costco – Profiting on Services, Not Products
These major retailers all have two things in common:
1) They make either no profit, or very little profit, on the products they sell
2) Most of their profit comes from supporting services
At Home Depot, say you buy some bathroom tile. Home Depot makes almost no money on that. Instead, they profit by getting you to sign up for a class that teaches you how to do the tiling yourself.
Let’s say you buy a computer at Best Buy. Remember, they have to compete with Amazon. So they can’t overprice Amazon. But they can sell you a warranty, a service plan from Geek Squad, or have their Geek Squad fix your PC when it breaks.
At Costco, they’re a membership club like Sam’s Club. They make all their money on membership fees, which members happily pay because they like the service and prices so much.
Plus, members get those fees back because of a special deal Costco has with American Express. Every member gets an AMEX card, and they get 3% back on all purchases made with it. At the end of the year, almost every member makes more than their membership fees back.
What you can learn: If you sell common products, how can you increase your margins by offering your customers additional services? If you have a unique product with good margins, how can you increase those margins further with other services that solve customer’s problems?
That’s plenty of inspiration for you to make it a great 2016. Take your holiday vacation, and consider how you can make your business more helpful and profitable than ever!
Should you focus on skyrocketing your profits or cutting your costs?
If you’re the business owner, you know every nook and cranny of your company. You know where the inefficiencies are. You have ideas for boosting sales.
But you have more ideas than time…
So which do you focus on?
1. When in Doubt, Look at Growing Your Revenues First
It’s annoying when you know you could save a few hundred bucks per month by making a process more efficient, isn’t it?
What could you do with that money? Do you have a new idea you’d like to execute?Â Should you go on that vacation you’ve been thinking about for years?
While it’s annoying, you’re better off focusing on ideas for boosting your profits first.
It’s likely you know of a profit-generating idea that will make more money than you could save by improving efficiency anywhere in your business.
Plus, once you reel in that additional cash, you can hire someone else to improve your efficiency or reduce your costs.
2. After Periods of High Growth, Consider Reducing Costs and Improving YourÂ Efficiency
When you grow, people and processes and products move so fast. Refining a process for maximum efficiency takes a lot of time.
During growth, it’s most important to get your product or service to your customers and keep them happy. You’ll get some more cash in too.
Once you find yourself comfortably operating at higher revenue levels, then it’s time to optimize the processes that make them happen. That way, you’ll get long-term savings, and you’ll have already made your customers happy, so you’ll keep their business and earnÂ referrals.
3. Not Investing in Growth Can Actually Reduce Your Long-Term Growth
Say you have a solid market position. You feel comfortable, and know you can stay at a decent revenue level for the foreseeable future.
It’s still wise to invest in growth at this point because of the free market competition we have in the US. You never know – your competitor could find a new way to make and sell your same product with a similar level of quality for a cheaper price.
Or they might find a better way to market their products and services so they seem better than yours, even if they truly aren’t.
You could suddenly find yourself losing a ton of market share to your competitor.
It’s just another reason why it’s important to invest in growth now, rather than efficiency and cost savings.
4. You can Cut Employees Quickly, But the Long-Term Loss Hurts You Big-Time
Cost efficiency isn’t always what it seems. If you have employees, you know they’re the biggest line-item on your expense report.
But that doesn’t mean they are “expensive.” Sure, you can get some quick gains by cutting employees now.
However, think about all the costs involved in re-hiring. You’ll have to re-train new employees. It’ll take them time to get familiar with your business. There’ll be tons of bumps and bruises as they become as qualified and knowledgeable as the employees you let go.
So this shows you that cost savings aren’t always what they appear. It can be appropriate to layoff employees. But it’s likely one of the last things you should consider.
So What Profit-Generating Ideas Do You Have?
It’s up to you what you do right now, depending on the circumstances of your business.
But it bears worth thinking about:
How could you deliver your customers more value and increase your profits starting today?
There’s only one way to find out, isn’t there?
Do you feel like this at work?
Every business owner goes through it – and maybe you have too:
Times when you just can’t stand what you do.
You remember when first started. You loved it. You couldn’t get enough of it. You worked 9, 10, or 12-hour days relentlessly…and you couldn’t wait for more.
But now, you hate your business. In fact, you wonder why you even got into it in the first place.
Aren’t you supposed to like what you do?
Who wants to spend 40-50 hours per week, or more, doing something they can’t wait to retire from? That’s a waste of your life!
If you struggle to stay motivated at your business, here’s some things I’ve learned that you might need to change to get your love for your work back:
1. Focus on the Tasks You Like Most and Hire Someone Else to do the Rest
At your business, you’re responsible for a certain set of tasks. You know which ones you like, and which you’d love to cross off your list.
You know your own tolerance levels. And if you don’t, now’s the time to find out. So, take some time to see which tasks you don’t like doing, and how much of them you’re willing to do.
Train someone else to take them on.
2. Be Yourself, Not Your Workaholic Superhero
You’ve heard of stories of superstar entrepreneurs who work 90, 100, or 120-hour work weeks. But here’s the thing: you’re not them.
You’re you. You’re different.
Some people can work more hours than others, and there’s no doubt about that. Many extreme workaholics grossly exaggerate how much they work. In fact, you can cut off 25-50% of those hours they claim to work above 40.
With the remaining hours, many actually get 15 minutes of productive work done for each hour they spend.
That’s a horrible ROI, isn’t it?
Find out how to be the most productive version of you that you can be. But have limits.
3. Take a Calculated Risk
Doing the same thing day after day for years bores just about everyone. In fact, it’s a perfect recipe for driving yourself insane.
One way to get out of that is to take a new business risk – a calculated one. Try to get yourself published on a big-name blog. Add your own line of products instead of reselling them.
Work on a new marketing angle. You’ve likely had some ideas burning in your mind for a while. So give them a try and see what happens.
Here’s an idea to inspire you:
3M, a $90-billion manufacturing company, actually required its managers (at one time) to make a percentage of their sales annually from new products.
Do What Feels Right
You have a gut instinct. Everyone does. You’ve been telling yourself to do something for months, maybe years.
When you do the right thing, rather than maintain the status quo, things get better. So if you know it’s the right thing, do it.
And even though change is stressful, everything will turn out okay!
Do your website sales remind you of this abandoned store?
In a previous post, we shared the top 14 reasons shoppers abandon their cart. And the reason that post was so important isÂ because Â 68.55% of shoppers who make it to your cart don’t end up buying.
Still sounds hard to believe. Could you imagine your own utter amazement if you saw 7 out of every 10 people in the grocery store quick hop out of line, shove their carts to the side, and then go home?
That kind of behavior would likely be the lead story on your local news!
The previous post also addressed strategies for overcoming the top 3 reasons customers abandon their carts. And now, I’m going to help you think of ways to reduce shopping cart abandonment for the next 3 most common reasons.
1. Reason #4: “Overall Price Too Expensive”
There’s a number of solutions to this one. My first suggestion is to check your competitor’s marketing. How do they discuss their products?
With a nutritional supplement, for example, most companies will talk about features. For example, you get 45 gel-caps.
Features are important. But first, your consumers really want to know what yourÂ nutritional supplement will do for them. So you have to present evidence that yours relieves joint pain first, before you discuss the features.
Most websites discuss features, so this is a likely opportunity for a win.
2. Reason #5 “Decided Against Buying”
I’ll admit, this reason is quite vague. There’s a million reasons a consumer may choose to not buy from you.
Again, I think the best solution is communicating your product’s value. Besides the product’s value, it’s also helpful to discuss the unique benefits customers get from your business. For example, if you can offer scary fast customer service with short waiting times on phone calls, that’s a big-time competitive advantage.
You could also try giving a special one-time offer. Maybe you break-even on this sale. But customers get to have an experience with your company. And if you make that experience so good, you can turn them into good long-term customers.
3. Reason #6 “Website Navigation Too Complicated”
While you can be quite creative on the internet, and it’s not a bad idea to do so, one place to avoid creativity is your website’s navigation. If you get creative in a way most people do not think with your navigation, you confuse and frustrate customers, who then don’t buy.
Check outÂ Zappos’ website. They’re a $500 million, or more, clothing retailer:
Now Zappos has simple navigation!
Zappos lets you searchÂ by category, if you look horizontally. So you can find whatever you want.
Vertically, on the left, those are likely the most popular categories, starting at the top.
In fact, if you want a whole lesson on user experience and ease, Zappos is the perfect website to use as a model.
Another rule to keep in mind is the “3-click rule.” Not including the actions “buying now” or “adding to cart,” your users should be able to get to everything on your website in just 3 easy clicks.
You Can Edit Your Website Almost Indefinitely…
You really can spend as much money as you want optimizing your website for your customers. But, those are the areas for the biggest wins.
Give them a close look, and see what you can do to give your customers a better experience.
Should you sell based on product value or volume?
It’s one of the biggest strategic decisions you can make early on in the life of your e-commerce biz:
selling products based on value, or volume.
Let’s take a look at some of the pros and cons of both:
Pros of Selling on Value and Volume:
Value: You generally get nicer, happier customers. They’re not as concerned about price. They know the additional quality they get by paying a little more.
Volume: It’s easy to find the products you need to sell. They’re available in abundance from many vendors.
Value: There’s less competition. That means you’re going to have an easier time selling.
Volume: You can quickly get access to selling nearly immediately at sites like Amazon and eBay. So you don’t have to think through your marketing as well because you’re “stealing” theirs.
Value: You have less competition. So once you’ve begun to get a strong hold on your niche, it’s easier to stay there.
Volume: Your revenues will grow much faster.
Value: You have your own distinct and recognizable brand that attracts more loyal customers.
Cons of Selling on Value and Volume
Volume: Customers only care about price. They tend to complain more because they want everything they can get for their money. Listening to complaints all day gets stressful.
Value: It’s hard to find the products you want to sell at good prices. You’re likely going to have to make the product yourself. Creating efficient processes takes smarts and a ton of hard work.
Volume: You have to compete with other very large companies like Amazon and Walmart, who have been refining their business practices for decades.
Value: You may have to spend more time marketing, showing your customers why your products and services are a better value than the competition’s. It takes lots of time and hard work to get your marketing to work.
Volume: You’re more susceptible to market forces outside of your control. For example, a competitor finds a way to make a nice profit that undercuts your prices by 10%.
Value: Depending on the price point for your item, you may need to spend more time showing customers the value and providing post-purchase customer service.
Volume: Your customers don’t stay as loyal. You experience more turnover because they can get your product at so many different businesses.
So Which is It for You: Value or Volume?
There’s no right answer. It’s a personal decision you have to come to after careful thought.
Just remember it’s not a light decision to make because it greatly impacts how your business works for its entire life.
Don’t let your e-commerce site remind you of this!
68.55% – that’s the average shopping cart abandonment rate according to Baymard Institute.
Shocking, isn’t it?
Most of the people that get to making a purchase on your website, the point where they’re almost ready to do it, just leave for no apparent reason.
I can’t tell you why you have the shopping cart abandonment rate you have at your website. ButÂ some other companies have done research on this and can tell you why.
Here’s some things that could be causing your website to have a higher shopping cart abandonment rate than it should:
Statistia Has a Graphic That Sheds a Lot of Light on This
According to Statistia, these are the top 14 reasons consumers abandon their shopping carts:
Statistia’s top 14 reasons users abandon shopping carts
Relax – There’s Only About a Million Solutions to These Problems
So now you know the causes of shopping cart abandonment. What can you do about it?
Fortunately, there’s a lot you can do.
1. Let’s Start with the Biggest Problem: Unexpected Charges
Even though this is a big problem, it’s relatively easy to solve for a quick, and significant win.
All you have to do is follow each interaction your user has with your website, and see how you’re communicating the charges they could experience.
At each step of the path, no matter how small, see what you can do to prepare them for the charges they’ll experience. You can’t always be precise because shipping gets tricky.
So if anything, tell them to expect too much. Then, when they actually check out and see a lower price, they’ll be pleasantly surprised (instead of angry).
2. How to Combat “I Was Just Browsing”
Nothing wrong with browsing is there? There’s a few things you can do withÂ people who are getting a sense of what they like and want:
â€˘ Offer them a special incentive so they can join your newsletter and buy later when ready
â€˘ Show your value better than any other business, and make the experience so fast, easy, and fun that they remember your website better than all competing sites
â€˘ Get them following you on social media and involved with your blog so you can build your relationship with them and hopefully get them to buy down the road
â€˘ Give them a limited-time offer to encourage them to buy now
3. What to do about Customers Finding a Better Price Elsewhere
Here, you’re going to have to make a judgment call:
1) Do you want to lower your prices and compete with other companies by selling more volume at lower prices?
2) OR, do you want to increase the perceived value of your products and work on justifying your higher prices?
Neither route is right or wrong. There’s pros and cons to both. And this is a huge strategic decision to make.
So don’t do it lightly.
The Internet Has Tons of Room for Creativity, So Feel Free to Play and Experiment
I’ve shown you some simple steps to try. But they’re not the only thing you can try. Research other marketing sites to see what other companies have tried. Imitate their methods, or try your own.
That’s the fun thing about running a website.
Hopefully, I’ve given you enough information to start going in the right direction.
With user experience, there isn’t a “one-size fits all” approach. Every website has different tactics that will and won’t work.
That being said, there are some high-level guidelines you should follow. And then you can test out the detailed minutia from there.
Anyway, if you want some user experience quick wins (and theÂ additionalÂ sales that come from said “quick wins”), here are some things to do:
1. Follow the “3-Click Rule”
Everything on your website should be accessible with just three clicks – not including the checkout process. The reason you follow this rule is that’s about how many clicks any user will make to find anything on your site.
A few users might go farther than that, but not many. So make everything easily accessed with 3 clicks.
If you’re thinking to add a few clicks beyond that for “SEO purposes,” don’t. Increasingly, SEO performance depends on user engagement. So if your page gets practically no clicks, and the clicks that do come don’t stay long, it’s not going to rank well anyway.
2. Don’t Use a Check-Box that Defaults to Subscribing People to Your Newsletter When They Check Out
Many sites do it, but it’s a huge no-no. The error in thinking is that you’ll exponentially grow your newsletter list.
You will see growth. But you’ll do more damage to your relationship with your customers than good.
When they see your newsletter they did not sign up for in their inbox, they’ll say, “What the hell is this?” And they’ll get irritated and unsubscribe. You might stay connected with a few customers. But it’s a short-sighted answer to a long-term problem.
It’s more worth your time to write a useful piece of content and give that to your users for free in exchange for choosing to sign up voluntarily. That way you get the people on your newsletter list who truly like you.
3. What to Do in the “Hero Area” of Your Home Page
The “Hero Area” is the section of your home page above the fold that users immediately see when they visit. It’s your first opportunity to get their attention, so you have to make it count.
With your hero area:
â€˘ Don’t use sliders because no one watches it long enough to even see what’s on the second slider.
â€˘ Don’t make it complex. A single promotion or message is enough for your users to focus on.
â€˘ Do communicate your value. This could be a limited-time offer. You could also talk about “free shipping” or “no minimum orders.”
4. Home Page Navigation
Users don’t know your website well yet. So as you test the most frequently used pages on Â your website, those should go in your navigation.
Include the major categories of what you offer, and other major business information (About your company, FAQ, policies etc…).
You should also avoid product-level promotions. If you have just a few products, you can ignore that. If you have a lot of products and promote just a couple, that’s too narrow and chases a lot of would-be customers away.
There’s an Infinitesimal Level of Detail
I could write on what to do and what not to do for a series of many blog posts. Â But these are the major tips I have for you now.
And here’s some additional resources:
â€˘Â 25 excellent UX examples from ecommerce sites
â€˘Â 21 examples of user experience innovation in ecommerce
â€˘Â 105 Ecommerce UX Tips: How to Seduce Visitors to Buy (some tips in this post originate from this source)
Beware those blog posts that say “How I Generated 1 Million New Website Visitors in Just 6 Months.”
They do actually accomplish those results, but they write those titles to get you to read.
But here’s the problem: 1 million visitors only do you good if they have an interest in what you offer.
Most often, bloggers writing those posts have hugely popular reputations in the first place. So it’s far easier for them to attract 1 million hits.
But those tactics might not work at all for your business.
Would you rather have 1 million visitors, with just 5 of them interested in what you sell? Or would you rather have 1,000, with 500 of them interested in what you offer?
So here’s how you can grow your traffic – and get people likely interested in what you sell:
1. Get Reviews on Your Website…At All Costs
Did you know that this article at Search Engine Land says 88% of customers trust online reviews as much as a recommendation from a friend?
Further, you can make the stars for the reviews appear in search, per this Google guide. When people see good star ratings appear under your search listing, they’re much more likely to click on it.
Plus, you get free market research. So if your product stinks, you’ll know why. Then you can fix it so more customers are happy – and then you can sell more.
2. Comment on Blogs with the Market You Sell To
Blog comments get overlooked. And you have to use them in the right way if you hope to get traffic out of them.
Here’s what you need to do:
â€˘ Find a blog that routinely gets multiple comments per post
â€˘ Make an insightful comment that disagrees with the post, agrees for a different reason, asks a question, or expands on a key point
â€˘ Make sure you can have a link to your website either in the comments or in a profile you set up to comment
3. Use Bing/Yahoo’s PPC
Yep, that’s right. Not Google. That’s where everyone else is. So there’s more competition. And you have to pay up to outbid other people.
On Bing/Yahoo, there’s less competition…but still plenty of relevant traffic. So you pay less per click.
No one thinks this way…so use it!
4. Influencer Marketing on The Best-Fit Social Media Site
A single tweet could drive you hundreds of new followers and customers. Build relationships with big-name authorities in your niche by sharing their content and using @mention to share their name when you do.
Send them content that might be of interest to their following. A simple Tweet is such a small, easy thing to ask for, so that’s a beneficial goal to target.
Don’t expect fast results though – relationships take time to build.
Those are some low-cost, low-risk ways to market your company, products, and services online. And you’ll get some nice sales from it too.